Our Topic of the Evening is Reason:

~Update: It was an interesting evening. I tried my Quirkology experiments, which didn’t go over so well since I didn’t have enough of the methodology and results of the studies they came from (yay for being skeptical, everyone!), Gerald brought in a great textbook and we did a few questions from that, Butch talked about the things that aren’t reasonable that people still believe in – superstitions – and we had a good discussion from that, and David brought in a quote from his favorite book – the Celtic Twilight by Yates, if I recall – which also sparked an interesting discussion.

Then we went to The Lavender Cafe for more great conversation and delicious food.

~

4. sound judgment; good sense.
8. to think or argue in a logical manner.
9. to form conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises.
11. to think through logically, as a problem.

Let’s celebrate reason, common sense and critical thinking by real life experiments or logical puzzles. Everyone bring in a couple real life experiments we can do without disturbing anyone, or a reasoning puzzle we can figure out together. (we might only have time for one, but it would be better to have extras to choose from)

If you bring in an experiment, it might be nice to explain how the scientific method works. Or if you bring in a reasoning puzzle, explain how critical thinking and reasoning works.

For some ideas, you could try these sources:

• Professor Richard Wiseman has a Friday Puzzle and also does quirky science experiments
  • I’m combing through his book Quirkology for some experiments we can try together
• Try Googling brain puzzle, reason puzzle, logical thinking puzzle, etc.
• Try Googling science party experiment, although most of these involve explosions. Not a good idea at the Blue Moose!

If you have good ideas to spare, leave comments to share with the rest of us!

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Update: We had a great time at Daniel and Ivy’s. Daniel is a great BBQer and Ivy puts on a fantastic spread. Everything was delicious, the company was awesome, the conversation was interesting, and overall I think it was just wonderful. The weather was perfect too!

~

Update: The Morgantown CoR is gearing up for our worthwhile cause, the West Virginia Botanic Garden. On April 11 from 2-4pm, the WVBG is having a Volunteer Orientation. See the post for details. We’ll meet at 2pm at the park and then go directly to Daniel and Ivy’s afterward for a bit of an early meeting and BBQ!

For the Topic of the Evening, the floor is yours! We are having an Open Topic, which means you get a few minutes to talk about anything that interests you. Suggestions for your topics:

• freethought
• atheism
• philosophy
• science
• skepticism
• history

Feel free to comment and let us know what you’ll be talking about, or keep it as a surprise!

Ivy and Daniel’s place:

486 Hite St.
Morgantown, WV
It’s off of Dorsey Ave. A few blocks up from White Park and the skating rink.
A house with a blue door.

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Ways to Contact Us:

• AtheistHotline.com
• (304) 534-9440
• atheisthotline@morgantownatheists.com
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You can call, email or post a question on the site now. The phone number is to a voice mail system. We are volunteering this service so we will get back to you as soon as we can. Leave your email address if you call, too please. It will be easiest for us to get back to you by email.

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The first video is on CNN Opinion and therefore it’s just a link to its page. Sam talks to CNN (at the TED conference) about how religion discussions distract us from truly important issues. It’s almost 4 minutes long. If you go there to the page, it has a lot of what he said under the video.

Project Reason, which Sam Harris helped start, had a video contest recently. So here are the winners.

Winning Video: The Values We All Stand For

An argument for a change in our national symbols to include atheists by not presuming a belief in God among Americans at the level of our federal government. The goal is not necessarily immediate action, but rather to raise consciousness about where these references to God came from and why they shouldn’t be a part of a government that is supposed to represent all of us.

Second Place Winner: Imagine

In a post-religion world, it would be difficult to convince people to build bombs, worship a person, teach creationism, tell people who to marry, or feel justified in ‘owning’ other people. And when we look up for inspiration we’d have to find it in ourselves.

Third Place Winner: Just a Book

A Bible thumper learns his lesson.

Cross-posted from Heaving Dead Cats

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The funny thing is, I’m not really a people person. Like a lot of atheists (supposedly), I’m quite an outsider, as much of a hermit as I can get away with, in fact. I have never liked going out in crowds or socializing with large groups of people.

Why am I telling you all of this? Because I have realized something that I want to share with you. Even though I’m a curmudgeonly hermit-y atheist, I love going to the 3 atheist/freethinker meetings we have every month. That’s 3 Sundays a month where I happily leave the house and go socialize with a small group of people. And I look forward to it. The one or 2 Sundays where we don’t meet I miss it.

Even people like me benefit from social community and contact. The beauty of the atheist/freethinker community is that we are relatively like-minded. We have a foundation of common ground. But we are also quite different, of course, which is good because that makes things interesting. The added bonus of freethinkers, skeptics and atheists is that we seem relatively level-headed and we argue and discuss matters with interest and fairness. No drama llama is invited! So it’s actually fun and mentally stimulating.

I think we all need some type of community, which is one thing that religion has in its favor that being a lone atheist does not.

But this is easily remedied. I thought I’d share some thoughts on how to get involved with a secular group of like-minded people. If none exist in your area, you can start one up.

Tips For Finding A Local Atheist/Humanist/Freethinker/Skeptical Community

1. Do a local Google search on the type of group you’re interested in. They may have a Yahoo, Google or Facebook group, or other page set up, or a website devoted to their activities.

2. Go to your favorite organizations and see if they have local chapters, or a list of local groups associated with them. Examples would be CFI, American Atheists, AHA, UnitedCoR, SCA, etc.

3. Look in your local paper, either online or in print. We have our meetings listed in the Today section of the paper, as well as a general entry in the church section (which is really more for a laugh than anyone looking there for an atheist group, I think)

4. Visit the library or local coffee shops for possible fliers on the bulletin boards.

Once you’ve seen that no local groups exist, or you find that you aren’t interested in what’s available, it’s time to start your own.

Tips For Starting A Local Atheist/Humanist/Freethinker/Skeptical Community

1. Start a local yahoo group, Google group, and/0r Facebook group. If you are sure of the name you want your group to have, you can get a domain name and set up a blog or website for the group you are forming.

I recommend a WordPress blog that pings to many different listing sites. This gets you into Google and other search engines much faster than a plain old website, in the easiest way.

2. Go to your favorite organizations and see if they offer any tips on starting a local chapter. Examples would be CFI, American Atheists, AHA, UnitedCoR, SCA, Atheist Nexus, etc.

3. Set a date, time and place for the first meeting. Also have a topic or agenda to talk about. For the first meeting, your location can be the library or a comfortable coffee shop. Provide directions to the meeting clearly in whatever web presence you’ve chosen.

4. Set up a Gmail email so people can contact you with questions. Or set up an email address associated with your domain name.

5. Contact your local paper. Look for a contact for the Today section, or something similar. Be friendly and polite and see if they will list your local meeting.

6. Create fliers (they don’t have to be big or fancy) and put them in the local coffee shops, the library, and any other places you can think of. If you created a group somewhere online, make sure to share that on the flier so people can read more, as well as your new email address so they can ask questions.

Also post to any groups you’ve created on Facebook, Yahoo or Google groups. Spread the word!

7. Show up to the meeting about 10 or 15 minutes early. I carry a tote bag that identifies me as an atheist (one of my Sir Lee Tees designs, a positive atheism message) to help people I haven’t met yet find me in the location. You can do something else to identify yourself to make it easier and more comfortable to people who will need to approach you. Or if you meet at the library, put up a sign in the room you are in, etc.

Expect the first meetings to be small. Maybe get a friend to sit with you for a half hour to see if anyone shows up. For Morgantown Atheists, there were quite a few meetings that were just the original founders and no one else. But with lots of messages on Atheist Nexus and other areas, it has grown to quite a dynamic little group that meets 3 times a month and now will have an ongoing Secular Service project.

8. Have some flexible goals in mind for the direction you want your group to go in. My experience is that these small communities sort of take on a life of their own, but having some ideas to start off with can at least give you confidence, as well as help others to decide if they want to come to a meeting.

~ So that should get you started. If you are interested in finding our starting a group, or if you do start one and want some more ideas, let me know! We can brainstorm, as I’m always looking for new ideas for my groups.

Cross-posted by Neece from Heaving Dead Cats

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I thought this would be good to see more of what the “religion is a virus” concept was all about, right from Dawkins, since we’re reading The God Virus this month for the book club.

The Root of All Evil? Part 1: The God Delusion. (Richard Dawkins, 2006) – 47:51

The Root of All Evil? – The Virus of Faith (2 of 2) – 47:58

Here’s a description of the first episode:
The Root of All Evil? is a television documentary, written and presented by Richard Dawkins, in which he argues that the world would be better off without religion. The documentary was first broadcast in January 2006, in the form of two 45-minute episodes (excluding advertisement breaks), on Channel 4 in the UK. Dawkins has said that the title “The Root of All Evil?” was not his preferred choice, but that Channel 4 had insisted on it to create controversy.[1] His sole concession from the producers on the title was the addition of the question mark. Dawkins has stated that the notion of anything being the root of all evil is ridiculous.[2] Dawkins’ book The God Delusion, released in September 2006, goes on to examine the topics raised in the documentary in greater detail. The God Delusion explores the unproven beliefs that are treated as factual by many religions and the extremes to which some followers have taken them. Dawkins opens the programme by describing the “would-be murderers . . . who want to kill you and me, and themselves, because they’re motivated by what they think is the highest ideal.” Dawkins argues that “the process of non-thinking called faith” is not a way of understanding the world, but instead stands in fundamental opposition to modern science and the scientific method, and is divisive and dangerous.

Here’s a description of the second episode:
In The Virus of Faith, Dawkins opines that the moral framework of religions is warped, and argues against the religious indoctrination of children. The title of this episode comes from The Selfish Gene, in which Dawkins discussed the concept of memes.

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~

Dec 7th Update:

Yesterday’s meeting was amazingly successful! Thanks to the 22 people who showed up to make it interesting, lively and fun.

We ran the gamut from christian apologist to deists to a bunch of godless athesists. Rachel brought tracts to hand out as well as great arguments for why we should believe in god. Her arguments were classic but I think we held our own and had fun refuting her reasoning.

Godless Heathens Converted: 0 (although Joe raised his hand when she asked if anyone accepted her arguments and wanted to convert, but I think he was just being supportive since he was pretending to be on her side and help her out. Joe you can clarify if you were really converted!)

At any rate, it was fun. Afterwards, we hung out and talked about anything and everything (which atheists can do. We don’t always talk about religion!) It was hard to leave because it was such a fun night.

Thank you so much for opening your home to us, Tim. That made the night so much more successful and comfortable.

~

The theme of this meeting is The Great Conversion!

Rachel (the president of the Brights) is going to use her guile, wit and best emotional appeals to try to convert us to christianity! (She’s a nonbeliever. This is all done in jest, but also to help us practice our logical discussion skills)

With our best atheist and skeptical logic we will defend our lack of belief and counter her arguments.

Bring along any logical fallacy books you might have, in case you want to reference them.

Rachel does not have to follow any rules. She is allowed to use any method (besides physical torture) to try to convert us.

We, on the other hand, will be polite and friendly, and use our best logic, reason and scientific research to defeat her conversion attempts.

This should be great fun for everyone!

After the event, I’ll report back here with how things went and how many atheists were re-converted. Let’s make a strong, positive showing, fellow heathens!

Oh, if you are on the fence, either as an agnostic or in some other manner, feel free to come along and support Rachel with your arguments. All are welcome, even if you just want to watch us discuss faith vs reason.

We met at Tim’s House (thanks Tim!)

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By Russell Blackford and Udo Schuklenk, Comment Is Free.

Civility has its uses, but atheists should not be afraid to mock faith to undermine religious power.

Religious teachings promise us much — eternal life, spiritual salvation, moral direction, and a deeper understanding of reality. It all sounds good, but these teachings are also onerous in their demands. If they can’t deliver on what they promise, it would be well to clear that up. Put bluntly, are the teachings of any religion actually true or not? Do they have any rational support? It’s hard to see what questions could be more important.

Surely the claims of religion — of all religions — merit scrutiny from every angle, whether historical, philosophical, scientific, or any other.
Contrary to many expectations in the 1970s, or even the 1990s, religion has not faded away, even in the Western democracies, and we still see intense activism from religious lobbies. Even now, one religion or another opposes abortion rights, most contraceptive technologies, and therapeutic cloning research. Various churches and sects condemn many harmless, pleasurable sexual activities that adults can reasonably enjoy.

As a result, these are frowned upon, if not prohibited outright, in many parts of the world, indeed people lose their lives because of them. Most religious organisations reject dying patients’ requests to end their lives as they see fit. Even in relatively secular countries, such as the UK, Canada, and Australia, governments pander blatantly to Christian moral concerns as the protection of religiously motivated refusals to provide medical professional services demonstrates.

In a different world, the merits, or otherwise, of religious teachings might be discussed more dispassionately. In that world, some of us who criticise religion itself might be content to argue that the church (and the mosque, and all the other religious architecture that sprouts across the landscape) should be kept separate from the state. Unfortunately, however, we don’t live in that world.
When religion claims authority in the political sphere, it is unsurprising — and totally justifiable — that atheists and skeptics question the source of this authority. If religious organisations or their leaders claim to speak on behalf of a god, it is fair to ask whether the god concerned really makes the claims that are communicated on its behalf. Does this god even exist? Where is the evidence? And even if this being does exist, why, exactly, should its wishes be translated into law?

In many situations, it is better to be civil, as Paul Kurtz has pointed out, but satire and  mockery have traditionally had a legitimate place whenever absurd ideas are joined to power and privilege. Enlightenment thinkers such as Voltaire often used mockery to show the absurdity of  ideological stances — including religious ones — that were considered sacrosanct. Mockery is one way of saying that a view does not deserve to be taken seriously. Religious views are fair game if one can also show, on a more serious level, why the view in question does indeed not deserve serious respect.

Perhaps some rationalist or humanist organisations, such as Kurtz’s venerable Center for Inquiry, do have good reason to maintain a scholarly and dignified brand image. But there is also room for the younger, brasher atheists whom Kurtz inaccurately brands as “fundamentalists”, and, in any event, there is a world of difference between appropriate civility and keeping quiet.

In the US, unfortunately, some atheists appear to have concluded that even civil and thoughtful criticism of supposedly “moderate” religion (i.e., almost anything that does not dispute evolutionary theory) should be discouraged.

These “accommodationist” atheists tend to be focused on science advocacy, particularly the teaching of evolution in public schools. In seeking public support for their positions, they think it prudent to take the various American demographics as they are. Since they want to sell evolutionary science to very large numbers of pious Americans, the last thing they want is to see it linked with atheism.
Once you think in that way, from a kind of marketing perspective, it can take over your approach to what you think you ought to say. Sincerity goes out the window, and everything must be “framed” to please the audience. We doubt that this strategy can work.

Religion cannot be eradicated — that is not a realistic goal — but the many problems with religious dogma can and should be highlighted. As atheists, we should state clearly that no religion has any rational warrant, and that many churches and sects promote cruelty, ignorance, and civil rights abuses.

There are harmful consequences to real people in the real world if the views of churches and sects are enshrined in law or given undue social deference – the acceptance even in liberal secular societies of conscientious objection as a legitimate reason for health care professionals and even civil servants to refuse to provide professional services to certain citizens is a case in point. For these reasons it is important that we should speak out and publicly contest the special authority that is accorded, all too often, to pontiffs, imams, priests, and presbyters. Religious leaders are not our moral leaders, much as they clamour to be, and however much the politicians flatter them. These spiritual emperors have no clothes, and we shouldn’t flinch from saying so.

Found at AlterNet.

Thanks to Bill for sharing this. While I’ve been guilty of being overly accommodating regarding religion, I find myself agreeing with this argument. Sure, there’s a place and time for civility, but in general, I think this article is right. Religion should be heartily mocked for its unfulfilled, ridiculous promises and stories that people eat up like candy.

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Want to help researchers learn about atheists, brights and humanists and how we think? I took the atheist survey yesterday and it was quite thorough. It took about 25 minutes at the most, and I felt like I was being counted, so to speak. As a housewife activist atheist, I really don’t fit what people think “nones” are, so it’s nice to share my worldview with people interested in looking at such things.

Oh, it’s completely confidential. They don’t take any personal information so if you’re in the closet don’t worry, you’re secret is safe with them.

Here’s what they say on their home page:

Atheists and other secularists who have a naturalistic worldview (a philosophy of life that does not involve a belief in God, higher powers, or anything supernatural) have been understudied by the social sciences.
The Center for Atheist Research was founded to address this omission, and seeks to give individuals across the religious/spiritual/secular spectrum the chance to contribute their perspective on topics within the psychology and sociology of atheism and secularity by participating in Internet-accessible academic research.

You can choose from the following current research studies:

• The Atheist Experience
• The Bright Experience
• The Secular Humanist Experience
• Your Perspective On Those Who Do Not Believe

Cross-posted from Heaving Dead Cats

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The parents don’t want their kids to feel like freaks and also want to help them counter the exasperated ‘you don’t believe in god!’ remarks. Sam, the father, admits that it can be lonely to not believe in god sometimes. I understand. I feel that way too, although not as much as before I belonged to Morgantown Atheists.

Diane, the mother, says they are open to ideas and suggestions. She says they have friends who aren’t religious but still believe in god. It’s not the same thing.

Seeing as how only about 10% of the population would go so far as to actually use the dreaded A-word, it can be isolating to be godless in a sea of believers. As I’ve mentioned, I still keep my atheism to myself when around Butch’s family. Some of them know we’re atheists but it’s never been brought up or mentioned. This means that a huge part of what I spend my time thinking about and being an activist over can’t be talked about when I spend time with others. It’s kind of lonely, in a way.

For Sam and Diane, I suggested they join a local atheist/humanist/freethinker group to get some community support. There’s nothing like simply hanging out with like-minded people to feel more connected. In my personal experience, the benefits of belonging to a local organization are numerous. I have felt much happier since joining. Just knowing there are others who think like me is a great relief, in a way.

I know, many atheists are loners and not into joining. I used to think I was like that too. Then I realized I am just picky. I don’t want to belong to a group that has wildly different values than me. But having a coffee and talking to someone who is also a godless heathen is, well, liberating and intellectually stimulating.

I have to say something now regarding children and atheism. One of my friends, I think it was Dan, recently commented ( I can’t remember if it was here on HDC or Facebook. And I think it was Dan… or Steve. I’m sorry, my friends, I am not positive. Please feel free to correct me) about a conversation he had with his 9 year old daughter. She asked her dad about god. Dan gave a good answer about what god is, and said something along the lines of that’s how a lot of people believe. His daughter asked him what he believed, if he believed in god. Dan explained he is an atheist and that no, he doesn’t. Then he asked her what she thought about god. She said the smartest, most amazing thing, which told me he’s a wonderful dad. She said, “I think I’m too young to decide.”

What that tells me is that Dan is raising his daughter, not to be an atheist, but to think for herself. I think the most important thing you can ever do for a child is to teach them critical thinking. Let them figure things out for themselves. Let them reason and make mistakes. Teach them how to think. Not what to believe.

I’m still thinking about what to tell Sam and Diane’s kids, in how to deal with other kids who are brainwashed with religion already.

Originally I posted this on Heaving Dead Cats and got some great responses. Here are my favorites:

makarios: I’d sure want to know if my kids were saying anything negative to other kids regarding their beliefs (parent’s beliefs). Christians often “get it” if you use the example of, “Well, if Muslim kids were saying your kid’s beliefs were wrong,” or “If your kids had to recite something from the Koran every morning how would you feel?” It might make it worse or it might open up some lines of communication.

Jake M: As far as websites go, I’d highly recommend http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/blog/. It is the blog of Dale McGowan, who co-authored both “Parenting Beyond Belief” and “Raising Freethinkers”
I haven’t had a chance to actually read the books, but judging from the blog, as well as the excepts from the books which are occasionally posted, they’re probably pretty great.
Hope that helps. I know I definitely don’t have any idea how I would raise my kids to be skeptical if I had them. You don’t want to stifle their imagination, but you don’t really want them believing in things which aren’t true, either. It’s definitely a tough balancing act.

Buffy: It makes me sick how Christians like to claim they’re “persecuted” for their beliefs and that their children are teased for believing. Yet they have no qualms about harassing others for not believing, for not being in the “proper” sect, for being the “wrong” type of believer, for being LGBT (or anything else “god” doesn’t approve of) etc. Funny how it’s OK when they’re doing the harassing. And of course refusing to let them harass you is also a form of “persecution”….

Diego: Same here Buffy. Kids can be cruel, but the outrageous thing about these cases is that parents will usually encourage kids to keep “evangelizing” (this is, bullying) other kids for their lack of belief. I’d say get together with other non-believing parents (if possible) and instruct the kid how simmilar god is to Santa Claus. That’s the only solutions I can think that might be applied to several cases. Oh, and sign the kids for learn martial arts lessons. Not only in case the christian kids might want to share some christian love, but because it gives control to the person.

Johnny:

There’s nothing like simply hanging out with like-minded people to feel more connected. In my personal experience, the benefits of belonging to a local organization are numerous. I have felt much happier since joining. Just knowing there are others who think like me is a great relief, in a way.

I personally can’t say enough about this too; my wife and I spending time with some local groups has been a huge relief.

An article from earlier this year that I thought was cool: Parents Gather to Nurture Nonbelief

I’ve not read them myself, but heard from several other atheist parents that Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers are very good (both by Dale McGowan, and mentioned by Jake M above). Dale also has a YouTube channel: Parenting Beyond Belief.

The article Raise Critical Thinkers, Not Atheists was pretty good; and the host site, AtheistParents.org, has some other good resources.

Skepchick’s entry on ‘They Might Be Giants’ release of a kids music CD, Here Comes Science.

Rational Moms Blog

Skeptic.com’s Junior Skeptics Mix Tape, a list of songs of science and skepticism for kids. All free to download MP3s.

Do you have any suggestions, websites, or books that might help them? If you come to the December 6 meeting, bring your ideas and suggestions. We’ll be talking about it briefly then.

EDIT: If there is enough interest, we’ll have a whole meeting in January about nonbelievers raising kids to think for themselves. Let us know if that topic is interesting to you.

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