~Update: We had a big crowd for Loring’s talk about christianity. He talked about his story, the history of christianity, and answered a bunch of questions. It was great! The food was also awesome, and of course the socializing was wonderful too.

Here are my notes that I took from Loring’s talk:

• The view of fundamentalism is “verbal plenary inerrancy”
• fundamentalists are separatists, they can’t associate with people who don’t think like they do. Evangelicals are theologically the same and often share a lot in common, but they are willing to deal with the wider church, to work with people who might think differently (if I recall, in hopes of converting them at some point)
• Why should atheists know the bible? Because if we are going to argue with christians, we can’t afford to make a mistake about christianity.
• The old testament was written by around 160-150 BCE. It started to come into shape in the first century CE.
• A great author is Bart Ehrman
  • Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
  • Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don’t Know About Them)
  • God’s Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question–Why We Suffer
  • A 24 part course on DVD on the Historical Jesus.
• Crucifixion was a penalty reserved for people undermining the Roman state. It was a political statement: do not oppose the Roman empire. It wasn’t for thieves like Barabbas. (To note an error in the Gospels)
• Christians modified the order of the old testament. The Jews have it in a different order.
• The Apocrypha: predates christianity. The Palestinians said it wasn’t scripture. The Egyptians said it was. Protestants reject it, Catholics accept it.
• The new testament took shape around the 300′s CE. Constantine had his conversion in 312.
• The Council of Nicaea was 325 CE. It asked the question, who was Jesus?
• Orthodoxy: a description of who won politically to decide what is orthodoxy and what is the “truth” and who ended up being heretics.
• Think of fundamentalism as a cone, with Jesus and his disciples at the point at the bottom. Over time things change and it gets farther from Jesus, things change. Fundamentalists are trying to get back to the base where it was pure, how it was with Jesus.
• Whereas regular christianity is more like an hourglass. At the base it starts with Jesus and grows. Then in the 300′s CE, there is a narrowing of doctrine and the orthodoxy is set. Then it branches back out again like the top of the hourglass. Now we have all kinds of christianity.
• Anabaptists are sects that baptize adults instead of babies. They baptize believers.
• Victor Stenger is another great author to consider
• Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity by John Loftus is another great book, according to Loring. It has great documentation and is rational, theological and philosophical.
• Loring talked about the different versions of the bible. He uses the New American Standard Bible.
• Epistemology: how you know what you know
• The gospels: A book called Synopsis of the Four Gospels compares the gospels in chart form with original text as well.
  • Mark is the oldest – about 70 CE
  • Matthew appears to be from Mark, Q and M and was written in the 80′s CE
  • Luke was also written in the 80′s CE and appears to be written from Mark, Q and L
  • John is the newest, from about 95 CE and is very different than the other three.
• Paul Kurtz is another great author. He wrote, among many other books, Science and Ethics: Can Science Help Us Make Wise Moral Judgments?.

~

We are having a guest speaker: Loring Prest, a christian theologian turned atheist. So bring your questions!

Here is his relevant educational background:

• Methodist Theological School in Ohio, Delaware, Ohio
  • Occasional studies leading to transfer of ordination, 1991-94
• North Park Theological Seminary, Chicago, Illinois
  • Orientation studies leading to ordination, 1985-86
• Grace Theological Seminary, Winona Lake, Indiana
  • Master of Theology, Christian Theology and Apologetics, Magna cum Laude, 1984
• Baptist Bible College of Pennsylvania, Clarks Summit, Pennsylvania
  • Bachelor of Religious Education, Biblical Studies, High Honors, 1978
  • Included a course in Historical Geography at the Institute of Holy Land Studies in Jerusalem, Israel.

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Q: Is there widespread media bias against Christianity? Against evangelicals such as Brit Hume and Sarah Palin? Against public figures who speak openly and directly about their faith? Against people who believe as you do?

There is no media bias against Christianity. If it appears to some people that there is, it is probably because after decades of hyper-diplomacy and a generally accepted mutual understanding that religion was not to be criticized, we have finally begun breaking through that taboo and are beginning to see candid discussions of the varieties of religious folly in American life. Activities that would be condemned by all if they were not cloaked in the protective mantle of religion are beginning to be subjected to proper scrutiny.

There is still a lot to accomplish however. We need to change the prevailing assumptions in the same way that public opinion has been reversed on drunk driving. When I was young, drunk drivers tended to be excused because, after all, they were drunk! Today, happily, we hold them doubly culpable for any misdeeds they commit while under the influence.

I look forward to the day when violence done under the influence of religious passion is considered more dishonorable, more shameful, than crimes of avarice, and is punished accordingly, and religious leaders who incite such acts are regarded with the same contempt that we reserve for bartenders who send dangerously disabled people out onto the highways.

I also look forward to the day when pastors who abuse the authority of their pulpits by misinforming their congregations about science, about public health, about global warming, about evolution must answer to the charge of dishonesty. Telling pious lies to trusting children is a form of abuse, plain and simple. If quacks and bunko artists can be convicted of fraud for selling worthless cures, why not clergy for making their living off unsupported claims of miracle cures and the efficacy of prayer?

The double standard that exempts religious activities from almost all standards of accountability should be dismantled once and for all. I don’t see bankers or stockbrokers wringing their hands because the media is biased against them; they know that their recent activities have earned them an unwanted place in the spotlight of public attention and criticism, and they get no free pass, especially given their power. Religious leaders and apologists should accept that since their institutions are so influential in American life, we have the right to hold their every move up to the light. If they detect that the media are giving them a harder time today than in the past, that is because the bias that protected religion from scrutiny is beginning to dissolve. High time.

By Daniel C. Dennett | January 12, 2010

Dennett is the Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy and Co-Director of the Center for Cognitive Studies at Tufts University. His most recent book was Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon.

A few notes by Neece*:

My first reaction is to disagree with Daniel Dennett. I think there is a definite bias towards religion in this society, which carries over into the media.

For example, watch a football game with the crybaby Tim Tebow playing. They never fail to mention how pious he is and how his parents are ministers, or some other such dreck. What the hell does that have to do with him throwing the ball down the field? Nothing. But the commentators (and whoever decides on such content) feel the need to share a heartwarming story. It’s biased. I’ve never once heard them mention godlessness in a sport, only how religious sports people are. It’s nauseating. Like that makes them better people. Watch their behavior and you’ll see they are no better than anyone else, or often they can be worse.

I agree with Mr. Dennett. It’s about damned time that we hold religious people and institutions accountable when they lie and cause hurt, either directly or indirectly through propaganda and hate-mongering.

I think indoctrinating children with religion and lies is harmful and often abusive. I have no idea how we can even tackle this though.

We also need to work harder on stopping quacks and pseudoscience proponents like Oprah, Jenny McCarthy and anyone else who lies to the public to promote their own agenda. We do so little to stop this sort of harm. So much more needs to be done to hold people who lie for a living accountable. Of course, this includes the religious, including the pope who is just as human as the rest of us, and whose lies are deadly to people in Africa and around the world.

Unfortunately it’s true that religious institutions and many religious leaders are powerful in America and around the world. Why should they be given carte blanche to do whatever they like, even if it is to molest children, or to spread hate, fear and lies, all while not paying taxes?

I wonder how much we really do scrutinize religion, the religious and their institutions, though. Not nearly enough, I’m afraid. But at least we’re getting somewhere. Now, let’s make them pay taxes. If they can bilk people of their hard earned savings while lying to them and using their pulpit for political agendas, shouldn’t they have to pay taxes too?

(*My personal opinion, not necessarily the views of Morgantown Atheists)

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~

Dec 7th Update:

Yesterday’s meeting was amazingly successful! Thanks to the 22 people who showed up to make it interesting, lively and fun.

We ran the gamut from christian apologist to deists to a bunch of godless athesists. Rachel brought tracts to hand out as well as great arguments for why we should believe in god. Her arguments were classic but I think we held our own and had fun refuting her reasoning.

Godless Heathens Converted: 0 (although Joe raised his hand when she asked if anyone accepted her arguments and wanted to convert, but I think he was just being supportive since he was pretending to be on her side and help her out. Joe you can clarify if you were really converted!)

At any rate, it was fun. Afterwards, we hung out and talked about anything and everything (which atheists can do. We don’t always talk about religion!) It was hard to leave because it was such a fun night.

Thank you so much for opening your home to us, Tim. That made the night so much more successful and comfortable.

~

The theme of this meeting is The Great Conversion!

Rachel (the president of the Brights) is going to use her guile, wit and best emotional appeals to try to convert us to christianity! (She’s a nonbeliever. This is all done in jest, but also to help us practice our logical discussion skills)

With our best atheist and skeptical logic we will defend our lack of belief and counter her arguments.

Bring along any logical fallacy books you might have, in case you want to reference them.

Rachel does not have to follow any rules. She is allowed to use any method (besides physical torture) to try to convert us.

We, on the other hand, will be polite and friendly, and use our best logic, reason and scientific research to defeat her conversion attempts.

This should be great fun for everyone!

After the event, I’ll report back here with how things went and how many atheists were re-converted. Let’s make a strong, positive showing, fellow heathens!

Oh, if you are on the fence, either as an agnostic or in some other manner, feel free to come along and support Rachel with your arguments. All are welcome, even if you just want to watch us discuss faith vs reason.

We met at Tim’s House (thanks Tim!)

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The Mythicists’ Forum, a consortium of New Testament scholars, together with American Atheists, Inc., have the pleasure to announce the 2010 Mythicist Prize.

THE PRIZE

The sum of $1,000 (U.S.) will be awarded to the author of a submitted essay which, in the opinion of the judges, sheds light on the origins of Christianity and, at the same time, supports the proposition that Jesus of Nazareth did not exist.

ELIGIBILITY

Anyone is eligible to submit an essay.  The prizewinning contribution will be published in 2010, along with submissions of distinction which merit an Honorable Mention. The publisher will be announced at the time of the award.

SUBMISSION

Contestants are limited to one essay each. Three copies of the work should be mailed in one package to: 2010 Mythicist Prize  396 E. 29th Ave., & Eugene, OR 97405  U.S.A.

DEADLINES FOR RECEIPT OF SUBMISSIONS

From the U.S.A.: Dec. 1, 2009. & From other countries: Dec. 15, 2009.

LANGUAGE OF SUBMISSION

Essays must be written in one of the following languages: English, German, French, Italian, Spanish.

JUDGES:

René Salm, Robert M. Price, Frank R. Zindler, Earl Doherty.  The decision of the judges is final. The prizewinner will be announced at the 2010 American Atheist National Convention. (Note: If no submission is deemed worthy of receiving the Mythicist Prize, then the prize will not be awarded.)

FORMAT

Essays must be 30–100 pages in length and double-spaced. Submissions should preferably be printed (or typed) on both sides of the paper. Footnotes or endnotes are permissible and a bibliography is required. Pages are to be numbered, with the author’s name and the title of the essay on each page. Also, the author’s name, address, as well as e-mail address should appear on the first or cover page. Submissions via email and digital files on computer disk are not permitted, but contributors should be prepared to supply a digital copy of their essay if requested.

For further information, please write to “2010 Mythicist Prize” at the address above, or email Mr. René Salm at rjs@epud.net. ”

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/mythicist_prize.html

http://www.atheists.org/Mythicist_Prize

Mythicists’ Forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythicists_forum/

the VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icvpY6cAZzg

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